Shivani Gupta (00:16)

I'm Shivani Gupta, and welcome to the Ask Shivani podcast. I believe that one of the best presents that you can give yourself is time to be able to sit down and ask yourself some questions. I believe that the quality of the question that you ask yourself will determine the quality of your life. Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Ask Shivani podcast I have Graeme Cowan on my podcast today. Graeme is a pretty amazing guy. One of the things that you may have come across an organization called “R U OKAY?”, he’s a board director of “R U OK?”, and it's been amazing to see how that movement has grown in terms of some of the work that Graeme did, as a founder. Graeme also talks about the fact that many people feel stressed at work because of the rate of change, and Graeme in his organization help busy leaders become more caring and more resilient, particularly as teams of remote. And also, people that enjoy growing together, he adopts simple daily rituals, which we're going to find out a fair bit about his view is that, you know, we are here to create caring, resilient, and growth-oriented teams. And in his business, which we'll also get ground to talk about is that they'll deliver presentations workshops, and online programs to help people grow. Welcome, Graeme!

Graeme Cowan (01:40)

Thank you so much Shivani, it’s lovely to be with you! 

Shivani Gupta (1:42)

Tell us a little bit Graeme, about your journey. I know everybody talks about journey. But in my experience, I find that you know there's three or four highlights are really awful lowlights. But the idea would get you into where you've got to. And I know you speak and you're a thought leader on resilience. And so, I would love to hear a little bit more about those highs and low points that have got you to where you've got to today.

Graeme Cowan (02:07)

Thanks, Shivani, I worked in sales and marketing and then in coaching kid resources, and as a headhunter, for a number of years for a group called at Carney, their management consultants around the world. And then I went through, there was a really huge disruption in the market. And I got really, really badly affected that by that, and although it had episodes of depression before, this was like in a in another League, I, literally lost my job, my marriage broke down, wasn't seeing my kids. And, you know, I actually had to go on with my parents, they lived in the country, and I was up there for a couple of years. And it was a very difficult time just sort of trying to get out of it, I tried all sorts of things, everything I could think of. And it wasn't a, you know, a quick turnaround, it was really gradual.

But I began just walking every day, you know, from usually about 30 minutes build up to like 45 minutes or an hour, I did also begin to reach out to friends and family, I'd really been quite isolated. And, you know, felt ashamed. And, and but I started to do that. And if we're not in look forward to it, I really enjoyed the experience after that. And then a friend of mine spoke with me about meditation. And I tried meditation, when I was really not well, and my last day, but I really found that I couldn't do it, but because of lifts my mood a bit, I was able to really engage in that. And, and it's become a regular ritual since then. And then, I sort of wait on this sort of transition, because when you were really depressed, you're very me focused, or you can think about it yourself.

But I began just walking every day, you know, from usually about 30 minutes build up to like 45 minutes or an hour, I did also begin to reach out to friends and family, I'd really been quite isolated. And, you know, felt ashamed. And, and but I started to do that. And if we're not in look forward to it, I really enjoyed the experience after that. And then a friend of mine spoke with me about meditation. And I tried meditation, when I was really not well, and my last day, but I really found that I couldn't do it, but because of lifts my mood a bit, I was able to really engage in that. And, and it's become a regular ritual since then. And then, I sort of wait on this sort of transition, because when you were really depressed, you're very me focused, or you can think about it yourself.

But I began just walking every day, you know, from usually about 30 minutes build up to like 45 minutes or an hour, I did also begin to reach out to friends and family, I'd really been quite isolated. And, you know, felt ashamed. And, and but I started to do that. And if we're not in look forward to it, I really enjoyed the experience after that. And then a friend of mine spoke with me about meditation. And I tried meditation, when I was really not well, and my last day, but I really found that I couldn't do it, but because of lifts my mood a bit, I was able to really engage in that. And, and it's become a regular ritual since then. And then, I sort of wait on this sort of transition, because when you were really depressed, you're very me focused, or you can think about it yourself.

Shivani Gupta (05:44)

That a really open and vulnerable way of sharing Graeme. Thank you and I think it's always so good to understand the backstory that that often got you into supporting others where you originally had to really go and support yourself. You spoke a little bit about this Graeme, but you know, some people have a process or mantra or methodology or ritual, like when challenges come your way. And you know, even when you just spoke about the fact that the last 12 months have been busier than ever, because so many people have reached out to you. I've certainly attended some of your webinars, which have been really fantastic as well. And tell me, you know, tell me in the audience a little bit about how do you go about dealing with challenges? Now come your way? Do you have a way or you know, you spoke a bit about meditation? How do you navigate through and different things come your way?

Graeme Cowan (06:39)

It's a very good question. I think one of the real keys is having personal insight and knowing when you're experiencing unhealthy stress. And for me, it really affects me in terms of my sleep, my sleep often really, really suffers. I do try to do things really regularly all the time. But you know, life happens. And that doesn't always get there. But that is my real signal. Now when I feel I guess I do have a sense of anxiety and not sleeping as well, I really pull back and think about what can I do and, and my real components of wellness and resilience are what I call VIP acting like a VIP. And so, the V stands for vitality, that's our physical health, you know, exercise good food, good rest. intimacy is our emotional health and that's having great people around us, you know, work life and our home life. And they are our scaffolding, you know, when things don't go well, and you know, I think about my breakdown. And after that it was really actively nurturing relationships and authentic relationships.

And so when I do feel myself start to slide, but I really am able to say or call someone and just say, look, I feel like I'm slipping a bit, if you want to help me, that's going to go for a walk. And there's something about walking shoulder to shoulder people and sharing what's happening that helps to normalize it. And to reduce the issue. The P part out of the VIP is prosperity, it’s a contribution energy that comes from really serving others. And whenever I do a webinar or podcast, that's where I ask myself, how can I serve and knowing that, or at least having an intention of helping others, I think it does help us as well. And when my when I talk to people about building resilience, I say, you have to act like a VIP. And that means making sure there's something in each of those classes will bring each day that a good for you. And that's how I sort of incorporate rituals to keep it a good place.

Shivani Gupta (08:51)

Yeah, that's great. I love that acronym. Also love the fact that it's VIP like something important that you do for yourself. So, you put yourself out that importance.

Graeme Cowan (09:03)

Very much so and there is this is self-care snapshot, which helps to people understand where they are in those three areas that can be found on my website, https://graemecowan.com.au/selfcare/ and there's a self-care snapshot, and you know, the little video that tells how to use it and how to apply it. But, you know, I think just considering that each of those, you know, stall legs of wellbeing are exactly that. And if one is not taking care of one of them, you can really, you know, fully on the chair falls over sort of thing. And it's, it's also, you know, my other mantra in this area is self-care isn't selfish. You can't take care of others if you're not taking care of yourself.

Shivani Gupta (09:50)

And I spend a lot of time mentoring women Graeme, and that's a common thing, you know, particularly for women, even if they're at very high levels within organisations. They do feel that because they give so much to their work already that if they in addition to self-care, you know, it's a bit selfish thing that they already, you know, work, I don't know, 10 hours a day. So that's a really beautiful way to put that is that you know, self-care is not selfish. That's, that's beautiful.

Tell us a little bit about I know that “R U OK?” is so well known. Tell us a little bit about your journey of that. Because you know, I know my kids are doing it in Queensland and schools. And when I see it on buses tell me that because it's really taken off. It's an amazing… just an amazing program. And it's such a simple question, but so, so powerful. Tell us a little bit about how that started.

Graeme Cowan (10:42)

Yeah, well, I, through my second book, I met Kevin Locke, and then Gavin was the founder of “R U OK?” And he talked about this idea, you know, of launching this initiative. And I just wanted to be an ambassador. And I said, look, I want to be all in, you know, I really believe in what you're doing. Because I experience at first hand, if I didn't have my parents support, I wouldn't have made it, I really wouldn't put us in a really, really bad, bad shape.

And so, I think some of the things that made it very powerful was just a wonderful tagline that a conversation could change your life, and everyone can relate to that. So, it wasn't about suicide prevention, although that was our ultimate aim. Aim was to help prevent suicide. But we still really promote connection. And knowing that connection is incredibly important to our sense of wellbeing. So, we launched it in 2009 in Parliament House of Canberra, and, you know, we had Nicola Roxon was there, she was a health minister time Gavin and myself. And it started really, really strongly for because we didn't have money, we didn't have employees. But there was really good branding associated with it, because Gavin worked with an advertising company. And then it was really the simplicity, I think that really helped to increase the momentum. Because we also weren't asking for money, we're just asking people to donate time, so they could help someone else. And so, I think that was a key element as well. And as it's grown and evolved, we've really gone about establishing niche programs. And as you mentioned, with your children, I've done one for kindergarten, for high school for university. We've done special programs for particular industries, the hospitality industry, motor phrase industry, mining industry, a number of others. And we've, I think, continue to keep the message quite simple, but we've added more layers to it.

And so, there's, you know, there's the basic four step process of ask, R U OK? Listen without judgment, encourage action, and check in and follow up. And that forms the acronym ALEC - like a A-L-E-C? And, yeah, you know, it is that we also are very much on the transition, who sort of being called a R U OK? day, but what we're really about is how you okay, 365, where, you know, we really are on the lookout for our loved ones, their work colleagues every single day of the year.

Shivani Gupta (13:29)

Yeah, that's, that's great. And I've come across you through quite a few common people. We know I've followed you on some webinars and some of the work that you do when you look at into the future. What other aspirations do you have? What are some of the other things you go? I haven't got to that. And look, they don't all have to be business related. There might be personal things as well. But what are some of the things particularly coming out of the year, not that we fully out of COVID. But as we start to emerge a little bit out of COVID? Particularly in Australia, how do you look into the future and things that you may wish still to do and some of your aspirations?

Graeme Cowan (14:04)

Yeah, I have a myself and a small team, have a real quest to improve the care in organizations and the sense of care and organizations. And so, what we've done with that is really probably a couple of things. We've developed this full range of online programs to build the capacity care and how to identify someone who's struggling, ask are you okay? But then know how to guide them to help so I've gone into much greater depth so I'm a non-executive, unpaid director of R U OK? but this side is my business. And what we're seeking to do is to use really engaging a learning to magnify the impact and help to stop little mental health problems getting bigger. And that's been done through organization formed partnerships with organizations like AON and Australian Stock Exchange and SPC. And Bolton, Clark and Estia, all organizations that are seeking to help prevent mental health problems happening. And so that's been really wonderful building that up.

And the second part of compared to that is deciding that we really needed influential people to spread the message about the importance of care and high performance. And so, we started a podcast called the caring CEO podcast. And we ask people to nominate CEOs that they knew that did pursue that a culture of high performance and culture of care. And it's been really gratifying this year to launch some of the things and amazing people, you know, Mike Schneider, the CEO, Bunnings, you know, that oversees 60,000 people, but you know, how important he sees this, you know, well, being in health across the organization, we've had some amazing women as well. And you know, like you just mentioned, they often really have a lot of lot of things, they often not the primary care giver, but they've also got really big jobs as well.

So, you know, we've interviewed people like Kim Hogan, who looks after the Department of Customer Service in New South Wales. And to be honest, it's been really inspiring to me to be able to share their insights and how they go about it. And no one's perfect, no one begins to be perfect. But, you know, these people are really consciously trying to do that. And so, we're hoping through that, and, you know, our podcasts have been well received and shared that sort of stuff, we really hope that we can continue to build this culture of care and workplaces and knowing that it directly links also to the cultural performance as well.

Shivani Gupta (16:57)

Yeah, that sounds like a really great thing in the future is to interview people, I've listened to two of them, and fantastic, really, really, really great work.

Graeme Cowan (17:09)

Thank you.

Shivani Gupta (17:10)

Graeme, you spoke a little bit about some of the things that you do already for your wellness and your habits and your rituals. I think you mentioned meditation a little bit earlier. Tell me tell me about some other things. And just before we started recording, you were telling me that you're up in the Blue Mountains. So, tell me about some of the things that you do for your own wellness. And there may be daily there might be, you know, monthly or yearly, they may be at different frequencies, but what sort of keeps you managing your wellbeing and your resilience in terms of what you do.

Graeme Cowan (17:39)

You probably see this, unfortunately, listeners will not be able to but this is my weekly plan. And it's broken down into all the areas we talked about. So, on Sunday, I think about - okay, where am I going to do my exercise during the week and schedule within? Who I catching up to, you know, friends, family, really good work colleagues? And then what are the, you know, from a prosperity point of view, what are the things that I really want to get done? This week, the important things I get done, and that really is, is my roadmap each week, I feel one of those out. And that weekly planner, also that same URL that I mentioned before.

So, you do your snapshot and find out where your emptiest glasses of wellbeing are. And then this is the weekly planner to help make things happen. So, the really things that start my day, always well is that I do a commit to meditate first thing every day when I woke up. And I had some moments where I was doing and wasn't doing it.

But I heard a podcast interview with Hugh Jackman, and he's very keen podcaster. And he says, that's what he just decided to do good first thing no matter what, each day, that way it happens. And I thought it was good enough for Hugh Jackman. It could be good enough for me. So, I practice that each week. And then I do have exercise each week, I generally go for two days have a bit of a run, I go to the gym and do some weights a couple of times a week and a walk a couple of times a week. So, you know, I really do try to have activity each day. People in my life, which are good to catch up with. So, the other ways that I found work for me.

Shivani Gupta (19:29)

Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that planner. So obviously I was going to talk to you about how people can get in contact with you. But for that planner, it'll be https://graemecowan.com.au/selfcare

Okay, beautiful, so that they can actually look at that. That's fabulous. That's really, really great. So, people can follow you and subscribe to your podcast. Tell us a little bit about some of the work you do, Graeme for the people that are listening that go – oh that's really interesting, I need to, to look that up. And then we can talk about different platforms that people can catch up with you. So, tell us about a little bit about the work that you do in terms of the speaking and the workshops, etc.

Graeme Cowan (20:13)

Probably, maybe may have been a sign of the times, but the most common webinar title added last year was self-care isn't selfish, with the subheading, resilience for uncertain times. And so, it really does go into that whole the VIP side of things, encourages people to create rituals and habits and stick and to, you know, to increase their wellbeing and performance. Because it's very, very well known that if you're not in good shape yourself, you can't help other people, you can't be a great leader if you're stressed yourself. Because when people are in a positive mood, they're 31%, productive, 37% more influential, and 300% more creative, according to Harvard Business Review research.

. So, it's not, you know, just something to do on the side, it really is a performance thing to do that. So that's probably the main one. The second one is crew care. And that's growing psychologically safe and resilient teams. So psychologically safe teams, that's where people can be themselves, it's where they can take moderate risks, it's where they're supportive things that work out, it's been shown to be the number one predictor of high performing teams by groups like Google, and IDEO, and all that sort of stuff. And so, it's how teams get the how they support each other. But how also how well connected they are, you know, and that's been especially challenging, you know, during this whole last 12 months or so. So how connected they are, and you want the outcome for that for everyone to feel we belong, you know, we're part of this group. The next one is do we feel safe? that psychological safety, can we be ourselves? can we make suggestions? can we listen to? and the third element that is, do we share a future, you know, is the team involved in helping to frame the future.

So that's the, the crew care side of things. And then the final one, which I do a lot of R U OK? 365. And so that's looking at how we embed things in the organization. And a lot of the work I've done with the week here, range of products does just do that as a, 20- or 30-minute e-learning program, there's a two-hour weekend manager program, which goes into greater depth for managers. And then there's something called momentum, and it's a pack for people who purchase the product to keep the event going not just up to the launch, but for at least a year later. So, we provide a whole lot of resources to help that move forward. And we've done that, you know, in a wide range of industries, to from government to aged care, to manufacturing to financial services, because it's all you know, this is happening everywhere, you know, the sense of, you know, uncertainty, every and I've done probably about 100 webinars in the last 15 months.

And I always ask people, what is stressing them the most? always number one is uncertainty. It's number one, each time. And so, part of they have this material is knowing that our mood is determined by three things, it's termed by our genetics that contributes 50%, the events that happen in our lives, that's 10%. But 40% is our intentional actions, and we have 100% control at what we choose to do each day sort of thing. So, it's just really doubling down on that 40% and doing the things that we know we should be doing but they're always do.

Shivani Gupta (23:49)

That's awesome Graeme, that's great. Tell us some I know we've got https://graemecowan.com.au/ , where else is the best place for people to follow you? follow some of your work? Or is the website the best place to go?

Graeme Cowan (24:04)

It's a good starting point for all these scalable works that I do. It's a website called FactorC, where C is for care factor https://factorc.com.au/ . As you can see there the week here range product, which is about helping to really embedded in an organization over time, and probably the most active social media I'm involved with is LinkedIn. So that's a good place to connect to me as well. Always sharing stuff always very interested to see what people was going on as well.

So yeah, that's, that's great and really praise you Shivani for your mission to help women have better lives and leadership and I really believe that the way things are heading we do need to have more senior women and that's been a real focus, my webcast or sorry, my podcast is having 50% women and it's been great to share these stories where they've often had the challenges you talk about and how to balance family and kids and in a really very, very busy role.

Shivani Gupta (25:09)

That's great and thank you. Thank you for that acknowledgement. And I think it's great that you've come up with a 50%. Because I think I'm constantly harping on about pay equity and 50% of women and tables everywhere across the globe. So absolutely, I think we can both work towards that. Graeme, thank you and It's been delightful. I might stay on a couple of minutes and just have a conversation with you. But just some of the tools that you've shared the generosity of sharing your website and people to be able to look at that forward self-care, we will also post that on the podcast. Really appreciate your time today.

Graeme Cowan (25:46)

My pleasure, Shivani. Lovely to join you.

Shivani Gupta (25:57)

I'm Shivani Gupta. And you've been listening to the Ask Shivani podcast where I'd like to ask some questions. Thank you so much for listening. Please follow Ask Shivani on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. And if you haven't done so, please go to the Apple podcasts and subscribe rate and review this podcast. It would mean a lot. Thank you.