Shivani Gupta

Welcome to the AskShivani podcast, I'm so excited to have Sarah Maxwell today. I recently got to meet Sarah and have a fascinating background. And let me tell you a little bit about her even though I'm not going to do it justice. So, Sarah comes from frosty Canada, she talks about how somehow, she became a beach volleyball player, and she represented Canada for nine years. But that's almost a decade. She then moved to Australia with the team in 2000. And she has been coached by some of the world's best coaches and is ranked in the top 10 worldwide. She also then ended up marrying Australian five time Olympian and gold medalist Natalie Cook. And they have a beautiful four-year-old daughter. After retiring, she's done some amazing stuff. She's got a bio-psychology degree, she's become an NLP certified trainer. She's got to develop her own game space research. She's led couples’ workshops and corporate team developments and change management. And she's never ever left the passion that she's had for a sport. And now she also works with the Australian archery team going to that led into London 2012 and also created a wellness app. Again, the list is very long, but I just wanted to do a very quick intro and welcome Sarah.

Sarah Maxwell

Oh, thank you what a good excuse to chat to you.

Shivani Gupta

Absolutely, thank you for taking the time. Now, there been so many things when I read that out on your CV, and I probably left half of it out. Take us through a bit of your journey, maybe the big highs and the big lows, you know, all those transformational moments that have got you to where you are today, take us through some of that.

Sarah Maxwell

Well, sometimes I find that challenging actually that question because I don't know if you feel this Shivani, but it's like, I've lived many lives, it almost feels like sometimes I can't remember it. And so, you know, when you do BIOS or you submit a CV or something where you looked at your LinkedIn profile, it's like, oh, yeah, so look, ultimately, now I'm looking with a bit of a bigger lens, obviously, because some of the things were just happening at the moment. But coming from Canada, I was always the little girl who had big dreams, and they were always around sports. And it was very clear to me that like, this is what I wanted to do, I'd be out on the picnic table in the backyard, like practicing backflips, and all these moves. And then when I got into soccer, I'd be like, practice, practice, practice. And it was really, I always had an intense drive. And I never thought that a girl couldn't do it. It was interesting that our team became some of the first professional female athletes in Canada. And I just use the word professional because we actually got paid to play. And I think that I really attribute that to my mom because my mom was a feminist. And what she did was she really embodied this idea that anything was possible. And we've had challenges her and me but more and more, I recognize how deeply incredible that was. The fact that I always believed it was possible. I didn't even think I had to battle, that just brought up the fact that I was with her. We used to play baseball. And for some reason we started baseball, not softball, and oh, yeah, there's no other girls playing. How can I be the best at this sport, you know, and so I just remember is me and my mom, and all the boys and their dads for some reason all the dads brought the boys. And so, there was a little bit, you know, started a bit later that we were sort of what's the word for that? A little bit more battling or hustling a little bit with my mom. But there was a real deep, solid ingrained belief that I'm a person. And a person can do whatever they want.

And so, I think in some ways that lead to a really dreamy life where, you know, I went to university, I got a degree and all that kind of stuff. But again, I was like, I just want to do sport. And there were a lot of challenges because I had that dream and I was so clear. When I got knocked back from the indoor national team. I made part of the team and not the bigger team that I wanted to and this is something that's really interesting about dreams is that when I arrived, I'll never forget like the first day of the national team training camp. And there was this athlete there from another country who had emigrated to Canada, and I just mentioned that because she had a really full-on personality. And we had this guy this like mental trainer speak to us. I was almost crying. I was so inspired. I was like, wow, you know, and he was really wanting to rejuvenate the Canadian spirit and what we believed was possible. And I was just like so into it. And this athlete, when that guide left the room, she turned to all the athletes and she said, “What a crock”. Like, I'm not gonna swear, but you know, she was like, she just like, blew it all down. And here, I was, like, a new athlete young. And I just felt that, oh, this isn't the dream. This is not what I thought it was gonna be like, I thought was gonna be like the guy and everything he just talked about.

So, it was a really interesting moment was the first time in my life where I thought, oh, perhaps this isn't exactly how the dream is gonna manifest and, and so I ended up you know, heading into beach volleyball, and you know, kind of shifting the focus a little bit. But that was something that to this day, I often help other people with as well. But in myself, I say that sometimes what I thought the dream was going to be I always believe it has the same vibration, if you will, like the same flavor. But it looks slightly different. Because I feel like as humans, I was a little girl. I could only imagine as much as I could imagine.

And so this is making me want to share this story that when I went to see Oprah speak in Brisbane, like so many years later, when I just had my daughter, she told this incredible story about her grandmother hanging out clothes on the clothesline, and her grandmother telling her that one day she was going to get to work for a really great white family like she was. And Oprah remembered thinking, I'm not going to work for any white family. She was thinking more about who's going to be working for me. But she did say that she looked out into the oak trees, they had an oak tree and she just remembered thinking, one day, I'm going to have a beautiful oak tree in front of my house just like that. And as she was telling us all this story in Brisbane, she said, and just a week ago before coming here, Stedman and I - her partner, were out having tea. I want to say it's her Hawaii home, maybe. And she said she looked out. And she said to Stedman, oh look at the oak tree, but actually look at the 100 oak trees. And in that moment, she got that as a little girl, she could imagine one oak tree, but that the universe had a bigger plan for her. And it was like a field of oak trees. And that's what I sort of feel sometimes with my dream is that I dreamt as big as I could. But there was more for me. It was bigger, it was going to lead me to Australia, it was going to lead me to my daughter it was going to lead me to my partner was going to lead me to our friendship, you know, it was gonna lead me here, but I just could only imagine as big as I could imagine.

Shivani Gupta

I love that Sarah. That is so beautiful. And it wasn't in Brisbane, but I was at the Oprah in Sydney, going to share that story. And I remember that story. As soon as you started out, I remember that story that is so stunning. And so, with all the different changes that you've had in your career choices around sport, but also the moving to Australia, doing that you've obviously had a lot of training, mentally and academically and then you've utilized a lot of that work in your in your business as well as your personal life. Like so when challenges come your way. Whether it was the challenge around sport or moving here, like how do you go about doing it? Do you have a process? Do you have a methodology? Do you sit in a journal like what do you do when stuff comes at you and you're trying to solve challenges?

Sarah Maxwell

Yeah, it was great to hear you ask that, because I will say the very first thing I observed and you know me, I'm so honest. I was like, but I never had any challenge. Overall, that was so hard to answer. And I actually think that's potentially part of maybe that's part of my structure. We can call it denial. We could call it a lot of things. But I do find that question really difficult and perhaps as part of the process, it's like I'm so designed to flip the thing I like I'm the biggest silver lining person. However, I do remember growing up that I wasn't always positive. I was always I was pretty dramatic and quite filled with angst. It's just noticing that I didn't actually tell you about this part. So, this is good. When I was 14, I remember I spent a year sleeping on my mom's floor like in her bedroom because I could not fall asleep. Definitely, I couldn't fall asleep if the rest of the house was asleep. So, I would have to go to bed an hour early make sure I heard all the noise in the house. And, you know, ultimately in retrospect, I think what was going on was, I call it angst versus anxiety because I don't want to diminish some of anxiety disorders, if that makes sense. So I'm just gonna use the word angst. But what that was consistent and cycling thoughts.

What I've realized it's actually my superpower. But at the time, it wasn't, it was what made me go out on the picnic table and do 1000 jumps what made me do those, all that kind of like, training, dedication, committed behavior, but at night, going to sleep, there was really cyclical behavior, it was very much like, if I got onto something, I couldn't let it go. I was just like, oh my gosh, and so I would call myself a definite overthinker. We also said, you know, I'm such an analyzer. And I would say my mom would admit and say she was the same. She also analyzed things. And so here, we were analyzing the heck out of everything. And so, I give that example, because it led me to almost all that study that I did. I was so curious about the mind. I was like, what makes me crazy like this, you know? And so, as a 14-year-old, I've attracted a lot of 14 years old parents with 14-year-old girls into my life, I think because I went through that period.

But one of the things and by the way, it didn't happen from like, when I was 15, it went away. But what happened more, like when I was at university, I had this little bout of this period where I was so low, and I remember feeling like really distorts. And it really didn't match my life. Because I had a great life. But in my head, I didn't. And so, my mom, you know, I remember my mom sending me the package with St. John's Wort in it, and you know, this is you're going to start taking this. And I remember this moment. Now, this is just, there's no right or wrong here. This is what I chose to do. I remember in that moment, saying, I don't want to take this for the rest of my life. So, what am I going to do? I can't stay the way I am. But I'm not taking this.

So, the journey began. What is this mind thing? What's going on? And you know, yes, my degree is in biopsychology, it is the study of the mind. It was more like the chemicals of the brain. Which to be honest, at the end of the day, I was like, oh, that's not really what I want to know about. I was really interested in human behavior, I really wanted to understand, you know, the one thing from my degree that I loved was biofeedback, this idea that we could interact with our chemistry, you know, our behaviors could alter it like that I was down for, and I graduated in 2000. So, things the advancements in understanding around neuropsychology, the brain are just like, we didn't even know that you could cross the blood-brain barrier, yet. Like, that's just wild, because there are so many advancements even around this idea of biofeedback.

So anyway, I'm in attendance. So back to thoughts, in my career in volleyball, where most people were just training. I was like, we brought a meditation coach on tour, you know, we had energy healers, I was just on retreat with some people that you know Shivani, and I was sharing with them how this energy guy got me and my beach partner out on the sand, and he's like, I'm just gonna do some energetic testing with you. And he tested me and he's like, okay, so you're at your weakest when you're standing in sand. I'm like, awesome. I'm a professional beach volleyball player, you know like, come on. And so, then he would step into the water. And he'd be like, yeah, much stronger here. Like, oh, come on. So, this is a wild journey, where he was treating us for, like, energy around sand. And my jumping changed significantly. But other players were probably working on their calves and doing more squats than we did those two, but we were investigating a deeper realm, you know, and all back to this thinking. So, when I'm challenged, I have shifted from thinking about the thing to being honest, I stopped journaling. It's really interesting because people O'Brien particularly who I love, encourages journaling, lots of people journal to great success, my mom journals every single day for her entire life and burns them, which is you know, so it's like, journaling is a thing. For me, journaling and being a overthinker didn't go that well. It just resonated. I think about it a lot because I think there still could be a place for it. But I could see that as I became more mindful, which was like I started practicing the breath. I did like, you know, 10 days, no talking noble silence, and it's just like, blew my mind. You don't have to be so intense, but I was intense. And now when I have a problem, I think I really come back to the breath.

You know, I've done lots of reading of Eckhart Tolle, and I really think about who's talking right now. Is this like my pain body? Who am I, you know, I noticed that I'm noticing, you know, I have a lot of inner reflection. And I generally do that a lot before I ever come out. So, I do have a big internal world. And then I have noticed that I find it quite difficult to come out when I'm in the thing. You know, I'm not that good at being messy in front of everyone. I like to clean it up Shivani, before I get out there, but this is again, not a right way. This is just sort of thus far how it's been. So, when I'm challenged, I think I go into a lot of these practices that have become more normative now. The breathing stuffs. And I think there has become a flow state, I kind of noticed it a couple of years ago, like maybe even 10 years ago, I thought to myself, oh, it's not as hard as it used to be. Just felt like I was working so hard at everything. And then it does feel like it's gotten a little bit easier.

Shivani Gupta

I really, really appreciate how much like almost that journey that you went into in terms of sort of working that out. And, but I was listening to your process. I love the fact that you said I'm not sure if that's a process, but I just flip it like I've got this silver lining. I'm like, that's exactly your process. Your process is that. And then you go okay, this is what I do. But just also this notion that when it starts off, it's not a habit yet, but it's almost like forms the almost the way that you react to things is you go, oh, yeah, I've done this a million times, I can step into that. And Sarah, when I look at all the different things you've done, you've got a daughter, you've been doing quite a bit of work, when you look at future aspirations both work business, and personal. And whether you want to do a five-year timeframe, 10-year time frame, but what are some of the future things you got? Oh, I really want to do that, or I want to achieve that. Or I want to be that what would things have come up around work or home in terms of your future aspirations?

Sarah Maxwell

Well, I'm hoping this comes as a relief to some people, not much. And I'll just like relax, if you don't have a five-year plan, everyone, if you do, like, yay, because you'll be really much better at this question than me. However, what I have been working on is more the who am I? What are my values stuff, and allowing the next five years to come to me. So, for example, the last year, I have been working really freaking diligently on not forcing my next step. And I am a pretty much driven. And so, I was observing how I would like. Yeah, 2022 is a lot of start stops. Whereas normally I am like Stark, you know, like complete go all the way. So, to not yet a stop, for example, is really unfamiliar. And so, then I'm like, oh, now I'm uncomfortable. Not loving this. So, I have been working really hard not to force, I read a book a long time ago, but it's called Power Versus Force. I don't know if you've read it because it’s quite complicated book. You know what, don't read it, just the title. It's actually just like, to be honest, and then all the science to prove it. So basically, what it says, because it is like a hard tro read. So, it's saying that every force has an equal and opposite counterforce. So now you don't have to read it. You're welcome.

So, it's like physics. And so, I think about that with energy and my life. I'm like, if I forced this, it's going to have a backlash. It's going to come back to haunt me. So, I've been like, and look, I've done a lot of different like therapies and courses. The woman I roomed with at this retreat was like, you've done a lot of things on yourself. I'm like, I know. No wonder I've become so perfect. Just kidding. So, hold so back to the whole not forcing it bit is like I've just been dropped this like opportunity. And it came like without bells and without whistles like, so I've been working on who am I, What do I love - like and this is I suppose even the message I was like, do I even have a message these days, like what the heck do I want to share? The only thing I think I was wanting to share was this idea that there's always a trail. There's always like crumbs, telling this story about what we love and like, you know this whole, I want to be on my purpose. Well, anyways, I do, I want fulfillment, like this has always been kind of my message living a fulfilled life. And I'm like, there's always clues. There's always crumbs, but sometimes I'm just too busy or chaotic to see them. And so, I've been really looking at the crumbs lately, instead of forcing. So, the thing that dropped into my possibility, I'm like, oh, my gosh, so it was a potential to go away for a month on a UN. So, this is a thing. It was so interesting. It came in and it was to support an indigenous leader, going to the UNCOP 27. Like, what? What's that? I was like this is a massive acronym.

I didn't even catch that it was the UN at the beginning. So that I was like googling it. I'm like, oh, this is the climate change. And listening to diverse voices around the world at the UN. What? In Egypt? Okay, yeah. So this is like, this moment of real affirmation, that not forcing it or just being very aware and almost at peace, like calmer, and just allowing that to come, it came out of nowhere, seemingly. And so, allowing is something over the next five years, versus now I am into manifesting, I don't want to, like, give the message that there's no power in being deliberate. So, what I mean by that is, like, I had written down things around culture like all these things were written down. But I did not write down UNCOP 27 agent, and I did not write that down. So maybe it's the oak tree moment, I don't know. But over the next five years, I definitely want to be surrounded, in purpose, like impact, making a difference in the world, and a lot around culture, potentially refugee. You know, this area is really interesting. And always, I'm always drawn there just because of my own kind of background and things. So, I suppose it's more like a theme versus a written out goal.

Shivani Gupta

That is so great, Sarah, because you know, more and more people I'm speaking to are saying, I don't do what I used to do. So, you don't journal anymore. You're not saying hey, here's this concrete path that I have to take, like, I'm going to let it come to me, is what I heard. And I love that I'm going to let the next five years come to me, rather than I go to it.

Sarah Maxwell

Which is not easy for me. Just saying like, just so you know, that's like that's a change.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, yeah. But that's part of that self-growth and development. It was insane. I know. I don't want to my words, key words this year is surrender. Which I'm like, yeah, that's a lovely, but I’m like oh my god, it is so difficult to practice. So lovely to sound, the sound of it. And then surrender. But I find practicing it is really challenging.

Sarah Maxwell

Exactly,100%.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah and so what about your own wellness, I'm interested in your wellness rituals, but also really interested in your mental wellness. So, what are some of the things that you do something whether it's daily, monthly, or yearly, and you've just been on retreats? Or do you do that once a year, like tell us a bit about your rituals around wellness and practices, but particularly also focusing on mental wellness?

Sarah Maxwell

I think my mental wellness in the past two, three years has been very centered around community. I have moved around a lot. I love adventure, and I travel a lot and I I became very excited about my neighbors. I am so pumped to be able to walk to my neighbor's house with my daughter's hand. Like this is so exciting to me where some people's pride getting on the plane and going to such and such a place to me walking to school in the morning is a freaking breakthrough. Like that is so cool. So my wellness, like I started this walk and talk you know, like, I was just walking in Vancouver and I'm like, I'm gonna walk up there with my girlfriends, like this is a winning combo. And then we're gonna go on a hike to New Zealand, you know? Yes, we are, you know, so I think everything is community based just on the retreat. There was a doctor on the retreat and she did a little thing for us for the women. And she talked about dementia and alzheimers. And she said, the studies are showing that being in community and connected to other people. So the whole, like, just the science behind that, which is fascinating is that what they've discovered causes the Alzheimer's, so it's like this chemical that's there, and it starts to degrade part of your brain. However, if you have a lot of different connections, so if I have a whole bunch of ways of interacting with you Shivani, my brain will have many connections versus like, let's say the one. And so, one of those things is about talking to your friends and connecting with them. And I'm thinking, I am nailing this brain thing. So that's kind of cool because I just my heart wanted it. But apparently, science is backing it up. And the science, you know, when they talk about the longest living communities like these Japanese communities where these oldies still connect, and you know, there's, that's really a big part of it, they tried to look at the diet, and then this and then that. And it's a lot to do with connection.

So, the retreat that we just had, I was like, I didn't need to do one other activity, we all did say that we all just could have been together. Now, it didn't help that someone made the food for us and cleaned it up. And that we got to do Pilates and complain together. We got you know, we got to sit in an ice cube bath together, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, the guy, for example, that did the breath work. And the ice baths actually wrote to the facilitator, and said, that was the best group I've ever had. Because they all supported each other. He goes, that's why they all did it. And I was like, good one. We thought we were the best because we're so cool. It was that no; we all did three minutes in an ice bath. By the way, every single person was like, I am not doing that. We're like at this age. Why would you do this to yourself? Like it seemed ridiculous, right? But through supporting each other, and through the preparation, he prepared us and everybody was like, I'm doing it for this reason, you know, everybody was really ready. And 100% Everyone did it.

Shivani Gupta

Amazing. That's great. I did it last year, but I'm about to do it on Thursday. I'm in Sydney for a health day and I connect with a mastermind group that I'm part of, and then they're like, Oh, we're going to do it. But you know, nutrition is coming. And we've got an ice bath and bring his swimmers and like, ah, okay, I've already signed on to it.

Sarah Maxwell

You should do it, Shivani. Everybody else said no to it.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, absolutely will do. And so, with the work that you're doing, how do we find you? How do we connect with you? Where's the best place to get ahold and find out about some of the work that you're doing? Where can people connect with you?

Sarah Maxwell

Ultimately, I've been focusing most of my attention these days in the helping department on I've been really focusing on moms. So, my website https://www.inthegamecoaching.com/ , it leads you right to that, you know, I made it like that I have other things that I do. But ultimately, that's the desire of my heart. I run a six-week online program for these moms. And I've run it four times. And it's been really, yeah, really fulfilling. So, I would go to my website, I mean, I am on Facebook under my name, Sarah Maxwell (https://www.facebook.com/Sarah.Maxwell.9635) and it is sometimes it gets hard to find. There's lots of me, but you know. And then on Instagram, I've improved as a new thing. I haven't always focused there. But I also have @the_awakened_mama. And that's where I really love to give value for moms. So I think that's a pretty cool place to start. And I love the mom work, I think, you know, being able to respect this mature essence period, this idea that puberty isn't the only change we go through and really honor it and give moms the space they deserve to discover the whole of who they are. I am so down for that. So that's probably the best place.

Shivani Gupta

Amazing, I'm gonna hold on to you for a couple more minutes. But thank you, thank you. Thank you for being on here today. So, appreciate you.

Sarah Maxwell

Thank you.