Shivani Gupta

Hi everyone, and welcome to the AskShivani podcast, I'm really excited to have Caralee Fontenele on my podcast today, I met Caralee through EO or the Entrepreneurs Organization a couple of years ago and just love, loved her energy and enthusiasm for life. And she's quite an extraordinary businesswoman as well. Let me tell you a little bit about her. And then, we'll dive into some of the questions that we've got and find out more about her.

One of the things that Caralee now does is she helps law firms and the owner scale their business without actually getting to burnout in that particular industry, that happens a lot. She also leads an incredible team of legal professionals, and really helping them through separation and divorce. And we'll talk a bit about her journey in terms of how she got to that. She is herself also a podcast host, she's an author. She is currently on the EO Queensland board, she went to, you know, and started working and started businesses very early in her age, like as early as the early 20s. And has really love business. And we'll find out a lot more about her in a moment. Welcome, Caralee.

Caralee Fontenele

Hello, thanks for having me.

Shivani Gupta

Oh, it's really exciting. And Kelly, when I read your CV, and obviously, having gotten to know you a little bit over the last couple of years, there's so many things that you do on a, you've raised a bunch of money. For charity, I know you're on, you know, volunteer boards, I know you spoke at the International Women's Day event that I was at. So, there's so many different things that you do, take us through a little bit of your highlights, you know, the big things that you're proud of, and perhaps some of the lowlights in your life that you've got to where you have. And I find that, you know, there might be different for every person, but they're the moments that have really transformed you into who you are today. So, tell us a bit about them?

Caralee Fontenele

Well, I think starting with the highlights, one of the big highlights for me was really going making the decision to go back to uni or go to uni for the first time when I was 30. And to study law and actually finishing that and completing that. That was something that just was not on my radar at all, I left school when I was 16. So, for a lot of lawyers, it's not really a big deal. The expectation was that they went to school and that they went to uni, and they became a lawyer or a doctor or whatever it might have been. For me that just wasn't part of my upbringing, or even, you know, in my early 20s, because I was a young mom. And I was someone who was always sort of clever in the business side of life naturally. And so had fallen into business really, really young with my Ben husband. And so, for me to be branching out on my own and doing something like studying law, and then actually completing it and becoming a lawyer. And then starting a firm. That's sort of probably one of the prouder highlights, I guess you could say.

And I guess the highlight comes because of where I've come from. Yeah, I'm in terms of low lights. I think career wise, a lot of failed ideas and businesses over the years, starting from, you know, when I was in my early 20s, and leaning on others, so you know, being married, and being in a business with my ex-husband and things like that, it sort of knocks your confidence, because you even though you in hindsight, I look back and I think I was a really big integral part of those businesses. You're feeling like you're not doing it, and you're on your own terms or on your own. And so, and then after that, I had lots of little businesses, I still get calls for some of the businesses that I had, because they're on directories and things like that. But having them fail, and then, or losing interest in them, because I'm someone who can be a bit scattered and, you know, have lots of great ideas and not following through it can knock your confidence. So, to then come through, find the direction and be really successful. And what I've been doing has been a massive, you know, low lights leading to highlights, I guess you could say.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, amazing. I just think it's amazing that you went to uni at 30, as you said particularly in that profession where it's drummed into them at a very early age. You know if that's what you're going to do, I've got a just this week turned 12, Sam who's like I think I want to be a lawyer. So, we'll wait and see Caralee might link him up with you in a few years’ time.

Caralee Fontenele

Well, it's a great profession to be in and be a business owner. And, and you know, and I think having my experience as in other businesses prior to coming to the law has really been a huge help to me, because a lot of lawyers get really, really stuck, which is why I started the second business, which is helping law firm owners scale.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, awesome. And so, you've had lots of challenges, you've had businesses that you've started, and as you shared, that haven't done very well, obviously, lots of personal challenges and business challenges, you know, continuing to grow some of that. And so, some people have like a philosophy, or they have a way of dealing with challenges, like when challenges come your way Caralee, like, whether they're in work or personal or different areas of family? How do you do them? Like, do you have a process or a ritual that do you? How do you do with them? How do you attack them when they come your way?

Caralee Fontenele

I think it's, it's all about your mindset. And for me, I have been working on so much and even more so lately, that it's all of these things, whether it's relationships, or business or whatever it might be in your life, they're not a destination. And it's all actually a journey. And I think so much of the time we take on board that everything's going to be great when we reach this destination. So, in our relationships, everything's going to be great when we are old and holding, you know, out the hand of the person we've been with the last 50 years, and we've got grandkids together and all of that kind of stuff. And we view it like this destination of life. And same with our businesses like, there's an endpoint. But I think for me, I've just sort of realized and have been embracing that isn't a destination, there isn't an endpoint. The endpoint is death, really. And so we have to actually embrace the journey, rather than always be seeking this perfection and seeking this final destination of these big things in our lives. Because there just isn't one. And I think, yeah, not getting hung up on that perfectionist, it has to look like this really helps me to overcome those challenges, because it's just another ebb and flow. And whatever it is that you're doing.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, and it's interesting, when I'm speaking to certain women, you know, even as mentoring clients there, there's always more pressure on us now with perhaps what you know, we're better being Insta worthy or fitting in because there's so much pressure telling us what perfect is. But I think your guidance around an advice around, you know, just letting that piece go. And seeing and enjoying that piece of it is really important. And so, all the things different things that you've done Caralee, like when you look at the future, and some people look at a year out, some people look at 23, you know, 20 or 30 years out, like what are the timeframe that you have? What are some of the other things that you really want to do that, again, they might be business wise, they might be personal, but what are some of your future aspirations in terms of what you want to do?

Caralee Fontenele

Yeah, for me, I've got three kids. So, one's 21, one's 18, and one's 11. And so, for me, the 11 year old is kind of turning 18, when I'm about 50. So, there's been this, you know, idea that at 50, it's going to be a destination for me, which I'm now kind of embracing that. It isn't, and you know, and there's life well beyond that, because that's only six years away. So, but I do, you know, that is a big kind of timeframe for me in terms of having that freedom, of not being around for school drop offs, and having the responsibility of, you know, parenting young children. And so, I've always sort of thought when I'm 50, or there abouts, and my youngest has, you know, become independent, that I would do a lot more travel because, I was 22 when I had my first child. And so that's sort of why I've also set up my business, which is the Scalable Law Firm for so that I can be a little bit more remote. And also, so that I can create myself, work overseas and the ability to travel for work, because a lot of my clients are in the US or the UK or Canada, as well as Australia and New Zealand. So that's one of the things I love sailing, I grew up sailing. And so, I would love to buy a yacht in France and travel around for a couple of years. So that's sort of one of the things that's on my radar. The other thing that's on my radar is that my husband is from Brazil from a beautiful small town, and we want to buy a property there and sort of be there sometimes as well. So, I think just a little bit more of that freedom to move about as I wish is In my future, for sure, but for now, my law firm knuckling down on that, you know, and getting my kids through school, you know, you can't kind of have that nomadic life like, like, I would like to. And you know, who knows, I might do it for a couple of years and think, oh, it's better to have your feet on the ground more often? I don't know. But that's, that's where I'm sort of looking at.

Shivani Gupta

That's beautiful. And I've heard from somebody that's turning 50 this week.

Caralee Fontenele

Wow, congratulations.

Shivani Gupta

I don't you know, this is gonna sound so silly currently, but I don't know when that happened. Because I look at me, you know. And I, you know, that was obviously part of that journey in terms of getting you to, but at that age, you know, there was so much insecurity and wanting to please people where now it's like, I don't really care. And right, and you know, whatever's also right, in the moment, what's routed, I might not be right, in two months’ time, and just calling the shots and feeling through them in terms of what you want to do. So yeah, I can certainly resonate with them, but I have kids later than you. So, I've still got five years ahead of me to your schooling. And so that's amazing, like lots of travel, lots of working from anywhere. And obviously building some of those businesses between now and then. And when it comes to your wellness, like, you know, obviously you're helping other people scale, making sure that they don't burn out. And so, you know, to me, the opposite of burnout is obviously being really well. And so, when you're helping other people not get burnt out, look at their own wellness, look at how they have their patterns and things that they look after themselves. What are some of the rituals and that you have? And some sometimes people do things daily. Other times they do them annually or even further apart? What are some of the things you do to manage your own wellness?

Caralee Fontenele

One of the things I think that a lot of people don't do but I do really well is have really clear boundaries, around work and they're not boundaries that other people cross its boundaries that you cross personally, like checking your email late at night while you're sitting in bed, or working on the weekends or, you know, feeling pressure to respond to a client on the weekend, or whatever it might be. So, I mean, after six o'clock, you're not going to get any work out of me ever at night. And I'm not going to respond to any emails, I don't check my email. And I don't check my email on the weekend ever, either. Because you can't actually do anything substantive to be helpful to anyone. And then if you do respond, you're just setting yourself up to allow other people to have poor boundaries around you as well. So that's a really important one, I'm having really good boundaries around when you're going to be doing work and when you're not. And so that's one the other thing is, is taking plenty of time for yourself. So, I mean, as we've already discussed, I love travel and holidays. And so, you know, may I always make sure I've got plenty of fun things booked in and travel booked in and time out for me. So yes, that's definitely a big one as well. So, and then just the usual, you know, keeping you, you know, eating healthy, as healthy as you can, which can be really tricky when you're going to a lot of functions and things like that. But yeah, just keeping all of that in check, keeping alcohol in check. As a lawyer, that's something a pitfall that a lot of people fall into. And so, you've got to be, you know, really, really careful around those kinds of things, just being honest with yourself about that.

Shivani Gupta

Yeah, that's great. And I think a lot of people talk about travel as aspirational thing, right, in terms of what they wanted. And you spoke about that, but it's, you know, it's great to hear you sort of said, that's actually part of my wellbeing like, just having some time to get away going to beautiful places experiencing things. It's actually part of my wellbeing as well.

Caralee Fontenele

Yes, I find that when I particularly overseas travel, when you disconnect a little bit, because the time difference is a difference as well. And you've got that disconnection. It just gives you the space and I find for me, that's when my best creative ideas calm. Like, that's when I'm actually able to you know, just spend that time that we have that whitespace blanked out. And so we just I just recently came back from a week in Fiji, you don't do anything in Fiji, you just sit there. And it's just so nice. Like, you know, I mean, you don't have to worry about anything because everything's just done for you. You don't even have to worry about really what you're eating because there's one restaurant at a resort. So, everything's simple and easy. Yeah, so and this year I've got lots of travel booked. I'm going to Nashville for a conference and then tacking on Mexico. I'm actually doing that trip by myself, which I've never done, that kind of I've done conferences on my own and more than happy to do that. But I've never actually traveled solo completely, I often have my 11-year-old daughter with me. So that will be interesting going to Mexico on my own. And then, I've booked in Tony Robbins later in the year, I'm going to do date with destiny over in Miami. So that's something totally about me and about my mental health and growth and all that kind of thing. And then later in the year, or later in the year, Christmas, I'm taking the whole family to Africa, we're going to Tanzania. So, lots of travel plan.

Shivani Gupta

Oh sounds so beautiful. And they're also different to a love the variety that you've got planned in there. I just thought I'd share while I'm speaking to you, I do a week by myself every year. And I've just recently had two weeks for a conference and then went to New York by myself. So, me to New York with the family and I was there. And just had a week by myself. It was extraordinary. And I think and you and I talk about this sometimes in a EO which we're a part of that. You know, there's it's great listening to speak isn't great going to conferences, but you need what I call integration time you need space to actually think and be and in the in the British Virgin Islands BVI as it's known, you know, that's been a 12-year goal to get to that particular conference for me. So afterwards, I just didn't want to rush back and get back straight back into school lunches. I wanted to actually just have some space and time to absorb myself but absorb some of the learnings in a very noisy city. And actually, have some time to myself. So yeah, we can talk about that. But it was so beautiful. And I've had that ritual for about a decade now, once a year, I just usually have a week by myself and barn or go to a health retreat or just do something. And yeah, I absolutely love it. And I think as I get older, I think I'm going to need a lot more than a week, Caralee.

Caralee Fontenele

It's so good. And I've been toying with it. Like, do I feel brave enough? Because I wanted to go to this particular spot in Mexico, which is called Porter Vela. I think it's called PV for short. It's on the same coasters, Cabo. And I really want to go and I really wasn't thinking I'd go by myself, but I don't have a companion. So, it's like, well, why not? I don't want to waste the trip all the way over to that part of the world and not tack on something. And I did think I could go to New York, or I could go there. It's like that you you can go wherever you want, if you're just doing you. So where do you actually want to go? And what do you want to do? And so, I've booked it, I actually booked it on the weekend. And I'm really excited about about it and about just being me and challenging myself in that way.

Shivani Gupta

Well, that sounds amazing looks sounds like we might have to have another conversation when you get back and listen to you with some of your learnings in terms of what you want to do too. And in terms of what's the best way for people to find out and say they're running a law firm Caralee or they're going oh, this woman sounds amazing and interesting. What are the best platforms or places for people to find you and come in contact with you?

Caralee Fontenele

I'm everywhere. You can find me everywhere. One of the places you can find me as a LinkedIn. You can also find me on Instagram. I'm also on Facebook, but these days Facebook just isn't punching the or you know, it doesn't have the same power what power well as it used to, so I don't really focus on that. And then of course my website, you can find me over at https://www.scalablelaw.com/ or my website and my own name https://caraleefontenele.com/.

Shivani Gupta

That's fantastic. I might hang on and talk to you for a moment longer. But I'm so grateful currently. Thank you for making the time today and really excited to see you on your adventures for this year and beyond.

Caralee Fontenele

You can follow me on Instagram. I share lots of my adventures over there. So, it would be great to connect there too.

Shivani Gupta

Thank you.

Caralee Fontenele

Thanks.