Shivani Gupta

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Grow Your Business Podcast, I am pretty excited to have a gentleman here that I met last year through a speaking collaboration. But I have seen him for very many years on TV and seen him achieved some extraordinary things. And today, my guest is John Buchanan, he is regarded as one of the most successful international sports coaches in history, not in Australia, not in one particular part, but across history. And from his background, one of the things he does, he translates the deep insights of peak performance on the sports field, and also works with people in business, to help them into creating the right behaviors and actions that will then translate what he's learned in the sports into leadership. And for people as well. He's won a number of awards. He's been a performance coach for over 30 years, helping teams and businesses and organizations finding that a winning model, I could probably keep going with his CV for another four or five minutes. But let's dive right into speaking to John. Welcome, John. 

John Buchanan

Thanks, Shivani. That's a lovely intro. Very good

Ask Shivani

Thank you. Well, you've achieved so many things. And so, over that 30 years of coaching, but also all the other things that you've done, John, there must have been some pretty big highs and some pretty awful lows, and often those points of adversity form and create and transform us into who we are. So tell us about, you know, a couple of them that come to mind in terms of what were those high highs and those low lows that are created who I'm speaking to today, John Buchanan?

John Buchanan

Well, look, I think they like all of us, I think the highs and the lows, come at all different points of their lives don't die. And certainly, from my point of view, just growing up on the Gold Coast, when I was a sleepy little town was a fantastic environment and school I went to and the people I met and friends I made for life and then heading off to university. We're all though they had their moments. So probably testing the boundaries of different stages. And the boundaries were testing me too. So. But, you know, through all that, I, that sort of played itself out in terms of when I took on the Queensland coaching role, because, you know, that was my first professional head coach role. You know, up until that point, I'd coach I and children at sport, and head coach at club level. But suddenly, he was an opportunity to coach in our professional cricket team who would have had been coached by one of the legends of Australian cricket, Jeff Thompson, and lots of coaches in those days, and probably still these days have been from a background of having played quite a deal of cricket. Whereas my background, even though I had played at first class level wasn't anywhere near the pedigree of those gentlemen, you know. So, it, it brought me to a point where I had to actually understand how I coached you know, what I did, why I said what I said or did what I did, and so all your cornerstones and principles. So in terms of highs and lows, I suppose there was a there was a real high for me to be then selected as Queensland coach. And of course, I didn't ever want to Sheffield shield and in that first year, we managed to win the Sheffield shield. So after 69 years, it happened to coincide with my first year of college in Queensland. And that's a special time it's a special time for anybody that goes through something for the first time, you know, that you kind of imagine what it must have been like to break the sound barrier or break the world speed record or whatever it might have been whatever you do first time is always pretty special. And I guess to get to that point, didn't want to necessarily hide it behind sport. But you know, we had five children and you know, there was some some realize and they continue to eat real highs with five children going up and now some grandchildren so so my wife managed to look after the family and allowed me to go on and do the sorts of things that that I really enjoy doing, which was which was coaching. And so, you know, we had a terrific time, five years of Queensland, went over to England for a year in in that period, and then took on the Australian job and spent another eight years as head coach with the Australian cricket team. And again, just some amazing highs but again, one of the one of the real highs I suppose, is because I mentioned going back to childhood. I was going to wear the background, you know that's what I was going to do. I'm going to play Korea for Australia. never got to do that never was good enough to do that. But he was me standing on our home ground Brisbane in front of a home crowd. And second best thing, I suppose rather than being one of the 12 players that were standing out there to the national anthem, he was the coach standing next to him. So that was a that was a special moment. And, yeah, I mean, on guys, we had, we've had incredible success on the cricket field as a group over that period of time. And, you know, you do remember all the really good times, and there were some, you know, some significant losses in there that helped shape I think, how the group and myself or went about what was coming up and then and then, I guess, one of those, one of those lows was losing to England in 2005, losing a national series of England 2005. And I suppose most people understand in Australian sport, you get away with most things, you know, the Australian public's fairly tolerant, fairly forgiving, but they don't forgive you if you lose to the poms. And so, after six years with the Australian side, it was trying to move the coach on, you know, and I had to go and talk to the board and try to convince them why I should still be retained. So, you know, that took me into Yeah, a few important questions that I need to ask myself and also need to address the number of players and to see whether or not they still want them around. And I was then able to go to the board and present a 20 month picture about what it was going to be and that I would exit at that point in time, they gave me that opportunity. And so that was that was the plan, it all played out. It was a bit of a fairy tale, we the last game was the World Cup in, in the West Indies in Barbados, which we weren't. And so that was the last game that I coached. And in that last 20 months, I guess I was then recognizing what's next, you know, and it was always in about, well, I've learned a lot a lot before I started head coaching. And then I learned a lot through head coaching. So combine all that and take it outside of the sports arena and try to place it into the corporate arena, with certainly a lens of sport, because I think sports is incredible means or mechanism in which to look at everything to do with business and life. And so that's what I did back in 2007, and still continue to do.

Ask Shivani

Amazing. I had goosebumps, as you were speaking about couple of those moments having watched some of that. On TV, John, that sounds that's pretty amazing. And you're very humble about it. And I know that pretty hard to encapsulate 30 years of career there in a few minutes. But yeah, that's amazing. And so when John challenges come your way, and obviously they come across all of us, whether you're coaching, whether you're now running your own business, whether it's in family, do you have a methodology or a process? Or do you have like a way that you go about dealing with different people to different things? I'm really curious to know what it is that you do?

John Buchanan

Well, I do. But I suppose I've only really sort of pulled that together after I left the cricket team. And it was really a case of trying to understand what sort of, if you like formula or process structure, whatever we want to call it, that I had to actually deal with, as you saw people in inside the organization winning or losing media, shareholders, stakeholders, administration, travel training, myriad of things go on. And I guess that enabled me after I was able to sit down and have a bit more of the thinking a bit more of a look back, that I created this Everest model. And Eris was a phrase that I coined with the Australian cricket team when I first met them. So I just sort of said, you know, apart from a range of things, we're going to go on this journey to heroes together. And, you know, Everest, obviously, is a top of the world and you know, it's all about teamwork, it's all about planning, it's all about preparation, it's all about mitigating risk of if you can, it's all about getting the right people in the team, and it's all about how you harness all the collective abilities to try to achieve that goal. So, so that was the picture and the reality of that was about changing the game. You know, and that stemmed from, I guess my passion and love for cricket, which taught me back to childhood dies and and even up to the up to the then present and was about one of the great team, you know, the great times Australian cricket, which was which was the Invincibles and that was led by Bradman. And the point there being they did something special in 1948, after the war on travel through England or undefeated, and so they were given a title invincible. So to me, that was the picture for this, this team and that was all part of there was that, by the way that we played the game, by the way that we change how the game was being played, then by the time that we sort of disbanded as a, you know, as a group, then hopefully we'd also achieve a load, hopefully a flattering label as well, about what we did for the gap, not just in cricket and Australian cricket, but but for the game in general. So. So that was very much part of me, but also very much a part of what I do now. And that that is, you know, you're a barista and, and so to find your way through all the challenges and the issues and everything that's going on, I look at either the individual or I look at the leader, or I look at the team and and obviously, they're not separate channels, they're so interconnected. But I think there's a process in there that if we can understand, well, maybe this issue is more around the person right at the moment, now let's deal on that level. Or maybe it's around how we set up our leadership could be the former leader could be senior people in the organization, or indeed, a culture that you're trying to establish or, and then again, it might all be about the whole organization and, and try to treat that in, in some sort of consensual way, or some sort of integrated way. So So I think that you know, that that's what I evolved. And then and then to do that, obviously, Everest is the summit, but like any climb, you got to start at Basecamp, you got to understand what Basecamp looks like, and you got to have it all prepared, because that's the foundation and then, you know, that sort of inspires the strategy or the game plan, you know, your winning model. And then hopefully, that, you know, then mobilizes what I term your set players. So they that again, as other sporting term, but the set players are really, as you began at the beginning, it's about your actions and your behaviors, it's a bit of what people see, it's about the evidence that you show on a daily basis, or an individual shows on a daily basis all the team demonstrates, you know, quite regularly. And with that, you know, if the set plays are in place, then you know, you move towards the summit. And of course, it's all about then, well, are we on track? What's the review look like? How do we set up a review? What's the reflective process for people? So? So that's kind of how I see it helping businesses, individuals or leaders deal with everything that's thrown at them every day, you know, and I think the thing as you know, and in business, you're in competition every day, the world doesn't stop for you. Because you said, Oh, look, I got a weekend here. So just put everything on hold. And then when I come back on Monday, we will pick a no, because the world just keeps moving time keeps moving. Sport has that luxury of you know, that preparation, you know, where you play a game and, you know, even like the Australian cricket team that we've seen in India at the moment, and they just lost a couple of test matches. At the time that we're recording this, they now go into about an eight day break before they play the next test match. And so from my point of view, I think that's an absolute goldmine of a time for them to Yes, review and reflect on what what has happened. But it's more now about a reset. It's about a new campaign, you know, they now need to look at the two tests ahead of them, and set up a new way of going about what it is they want to do. Because there's a different goal. For starters, there's no longer a win on offer. But there is a drawn series off, you know, so. So to me, that's that review and reflective processes is obviously ongoing. But it's just so critical that it feeds back into that that whole sort of loop of your strategy winning plan set plays. And so yeah, you're tracking? Yeah,

Ask Shivani

I don't know if it's fortunate or unfortunate that we certainly had a split household last night John with the with India winning and it's about the only sport that causes a bit of a bit of tug of war in our household and so it's probably not a great day to be recording this podcast and talking to you about it because you'll be disappointed whereas I was doing a little bit of a victory lap around the house last night. And so what about your future aspirations John around business life Tell us about whether that's one year and five or 10 years out. Tell us a bit about your future aspiration?

John Buchanan

Well, I still have, you know, probably long term goals around coaching and what I'd like to achieve. And indeed, you know, that's that's not only a business run at the moment, I'm actually actively create coaching again, with a boys school team here in Brisbane in Queensland. In the GPS competition, I'm really, you know, really quite enjoying it, because it's just dealing with a group of young boys, young young men, who are obviously exploring their credibility. But at the same stage, they're exploring themselves in a sense how they deal with everything that goes into getting themselves ready to compete, think competing, and then either successfully or not successfully doing that. So how does that work in amongst, you know, a very, very busy school life. So that that I'm really enjoying and, yeah, it just puts, I suppose all, all the thinking and everything that I view is important in coaching and helping people into active play, and albeit it's a group of boys, or at least an age group that I have never really closely work with. So you know, that's a really enjoyable experience at the moment.

Ask Shivani

Yeah, that's wonderful. And the fact that you're, you know, going back, I'm not sure these young kids realize probably, that some of the background that you have, probably their parents do, but I remember telling my son that I was having you on the podcast, and being a cricketer, he was super excited. Because that's what we pumped a few videos into him. John, leadership philosophies, obviously, you talk to a lot of leaders, as you coach a lot of people. But are there certain philosophies that that are really important to you, that you apply there in your business and personal lives, or maybe that you teach? Tell us about a couple of philosophies that are really important to you? Sure.

John Buchanan

As I mentioned, when I took on that Queensland job, I had to work out what was really my own philosophy to coaching leadership, being involved as a head coach with a cricket team. And so I suppose some of the principal principal components are firstly, that that vision, I just really believe, no matter who I work with, whether it be one on one, executive coaching, whether it be a large organization, or indeed, as I just mentioned, is ABC cricket team. To me, there's always a picture, there's always something that we need to aspire to her, or be inspired by. And so, you know, that's kind of out there in the ether sometimes. And this is where we are now. So what's the overarching strategy to get there, so to me, that's always pretty well, a starting point, then sitting kind of well behind that, but nonetheless, sort of right near that is about making it making the case redundant. So for me, it's all about trying to empower, you know, the boys, in this case, or later grip people to take more and more responsibility and accountability and control of their destiny. And so, therefore, the coach or the leader, becomes less and less required on a, you know, daily, weekly, monthly, micromanaging basis, it's just the same as parenting, as we know, you know, so if we're able to make sure that our children have the right values, and given the right backgrounds and education and guidance, and so on, then we we are constantly standing further away from them, and allowing them to get out there and, and explore. And obviously, they make errors, and they make mistakes, and things don't quite go their way. So as parents, we're always there to try to pick up the pieces if that's required. But at the same stage, our children are learning and growing all the time. And that's just the same in any sporting team or any business or any organization. And so that kind of leads into what I turned the whole person because it was wonderful to deal with these, you know, amazing cricket athletes. But it always seemed to me that if I wasn't trying to get them to expand their horizons, to try to get them outside of the dressing room and try to be a little bit more conversant with the rest of the world. Then I wasn't doing my job. Now obviously, a number of them were, but a lot weren't. So I would always try to yeah, as I say take them outside the dressing room and make them uncomfortable in areas that they weren't used to so that they had a range of other other sort of skills and knowledge bases, maybe that would help them through cricket but beyond cricket. And part of that, part of that there is when I'm talking business sense or creative, it's about them being their own coach, as well their own best coach. Because again, if I'm gonna stand back and become redundant, that I like to know that the individual not only will take responsibility and accountability, but equally, they're very understanding of when they perform well, what do they do? What's in their control, and then I kind of break that down into technical, physical, mental and tactical skills. So that's the individual, you know, and if they can begin to get a handle on that, obviously, that gives them the opportunity to replicate that and hopefully, that gives them the opportunity to perform well, again, there's no guarantees, of course. And then the other part of that is, if they understand that, then you have a benchmark from which they can move forward. Part of our philosophy always never been satisfied. Always, just believe, good luck, the same behind me, you know, so if bear is possible, then good is not good enough, or it's Jim Collins Good to Great says that, no matter what we do, no matter how well we do it, or how poorly it goes, there is always so much room for improvement, as I say, it's the biggest room in the house room for improvement. So that's always been my approach, member of bosses. Pre Australia when I was there, and said, You must be a very unhappy person. And I say, No, it's not that I'm, if I'm never satisfied, I'm unhappy, I'm very happy with where things are going. But all I'm there to do is to challenge individuals and the team to be better MSL for the same stage and all our support staff, you know, so things can be done a heck of a lot better. And then, you know, you're throwing, planning around that, you know, that's, that's kind of the string that hopefully, binds the gift together. But of course, with planning, as we know, pretty well yet to see a plan fall into place. 100%, you know, so, so then it goes back to well, given that, you know, how do we respond, and the response comes out of review I mentioned before, but the review, and the reflection is then all wrapped up in what I termed the learning environment. So the learning environment is, is there, we need to ensure that we are learning from what we do well, or whatever we don't do as well as we'd like, and how do we actually, you know, take that into the future. So, you know, there's some of the, I guess, principles that I formulated when I walked into the room for that interview for Queensland cricket, and, you know, I haven't I haven't changed them since I will always reflect on those and always think about when I'm, whatever I'm doing even our conversation now in my living, you know, that philosophy am I delivering on that, which is it goes back here, set plays on a guy's

Ask Shivani

Fantastic, thank you, John. Um, you give a fair bit obviously, you talked about, you know, five kids, grandkids. I know that when we caught up, you know, you have a busy life, and then you're traveling and speaking and coaching, what are some of the things that you're doing for your own wellness now that I know we're speaking a lot about mental health right now, but also physical wellness, emotional wellness, tell us about whether you've got some rituals, whether they're daily, weekly, yearly? What are some of the things that you do to manage your own wellness.

John Buchanan

love my afternoon nap if I can get it in? Doesn't always happen. But look, yeah, look, I've always tried to maintain my physical health. And even though that, you know, on not near as physical as I used to be, you know, I do try to make sure that I'm actively doing something at least once a day, hopefully, you know, if I miss a day, then I'm certainly back on for the next day. So physically, I tried to look after that. And I guess food was my diet is is hopefully balanced. It's not anything in particular, it's just trying to make sure I get a bit of everything and I certainly enjoy certain foods and I'll continue to do so. Regular health checks. You know, my daughter is a dermatologist and she, she is always whenever we catch up just having a quick scan, but I regularly have a dermatologist checkup every six months or regular health check every In 12 months, and beyond that, you know, I love walking with my wife and getting into the garden, which is good. And and again talking about the cricket boys, I just really find that is so good, it just, it's it to some degree is therapeutic. If I want to do a couple other things, I'd love to be going fishing regularly. And I'd love to be just down in the surf but some of those things are not going to happen. And I suppose, try to squeeze in a little bit of sort of self meditation and have a morning. So always try to get up at five. And from there just kind of get the day moving. Again, a bit of a ritual is a bit of lemon juice and a warm lemon juice and celery juice to start the day. But once I've got that prepared, and maybe it's been 10 minutes or so, yeah, just taking the morning taking the sights and the sides with the sounds of the morning. And that a breathing and all those sort of things. So yeah, I guess they're all little pieces that you try to piece together through the day. And I think when I think when you do for when you are feeling cancer and feeling overwhelmed, you know, the there's nothing better than having somebody that, you know, you can turn to and, and have that sort of conversation. So my wife is definitely, you know, we've been married now for 43 years. So we've been through a lot together. And so it's good to have that sort of relationship to be able to talk some of those things out, but men are men, and I'll know probably different others and hide my feelings, you know, too many times and you know, don't express myself properly a number of other time. So that's one of my constant challenges.

Ask Shivani

that's a lot that's amazing, actually, from the morning ritual of a bit of meditation and exercise and food and family life is actually as you said, it's pretty balanced in terms of all the different things that you did some great tips in there for the listeners in terms of monetary things to apply. And if people want to follow you follow your work, or they go actually made some of this work. I really liked the sound of that what's with the best places or platforms to find you.

John Buchanan

Well, probably just head to the website, I think so. Buchanan coaching.com That's the easiest place. I'm on LinkedIn. Not a not a big Subscribe to Facebook or Instagram. But probably people will find me on LinkedIn or they will find me on LinkedIn. And as I say that website began coaching.com has best place.

Ask Shivani 

That sounds fantastic, John, we'll put that in the link as well when we post the podcast. It's been a pleasure having you on not hang on and have a chatty for a minute, but thank you for being on today.

John Buchanan

Thanks a lot. It's been a real pleasure.